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Author Topic: Normal Moves Tier Lists  (Read 7422 times)
ectonaut
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« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2010, 01:05:25 AM »

Yeah I'm not saying that's the definite list of the best sweepers. Just what I thought from personal playing experience.  I thought my list was pretty good but Foozer brought a different perspective to my attention.  The list could be different based on how you play... Baraka's  distance could play better for him while Shang's speed could play better for me...  That's also why I said numbers 1-4 could be debated... I think the top three in any which order are the chicks, baraka, and shang... It's a good thing to be debated upon too because what I wrote is just what from I think.
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ectonaut
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« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2010, 01:19:29 AM »


Hop-kick Tier List:

1. Shang
2. Kung
3. Ninjas
4. Means
5. Cage
6. Raiden
7. Baraka
8. Jax
9. Kang


Hop-kicks are a tough list.  maybe just to me because I will usually do straight up jump punches instead.  I'm pretty sure Shang and Cage's up-kicks can knock kitana out of a square wave punch which puts them high in my book.  Also the ninja have a very underrated one, but I feel it's always better to to do a jump punch if you think youre gonna meet the other guy in the air.
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rdz21
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« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2010, 05:47:39 AM »

For hop kicks, Cage's has priority of almost everything probably.

for uppercuts sometimes with Liu i miss it for some reason, even though he seems at perfect distance to uppercut. I agree with Foozer that kitana/mileena are top there.

Shang is probably the best in sweeps because he can make up for his lack of range by transforming to the female ninjas and sweep as much as you want there. he just has a natural advantage.

Is a projectile a normal? im curious to see someone liest a projectile tier list...mileena and liu easily have the fastest...kung lao is good there too.
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GaudenTheGreat
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« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2010, 08:28:39 AM »


Roundhouse Tier List:

4. Raiden (only because of the infinite capabilities)


 Huh?  care to expand on this, as it is news to me of 'infinite' potentials within 0ur beloved game.

Hop-kick Tier List:

1. Shang
2. Kung
3. Ninjas
4. Means
5. Cage
6. Raiden
7. Baraka
8. Jax
9. Kang

unless of course fusion is playing any of the above mentioned characters.... then they're all lumped into top tier status  Lips Sealed

I think Cage should be number 2 there.
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kraptile
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« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2010, 03:23:19 PM »

This is something that definitely should be covered and considered! I don't have a lot of time right now, so I'll just do one. If you feel I am mistaken, please post it here so we can discuss and share ideas as this is in no way set in stone. It'd be cool if fusion and dvd could each do at least one of these, just pick any special move you like!

Roundhouse Tier List:

1. Baraka  Grin
2. Sub-Zero / Scorpion / Reptile
3. Kung Lao (not useful for anti air, but it owns in the pressure game)
4. Raiden (only because of the infinite capabilities)
5. Jax
6. Liu Kang (useful for anti air against most characters, contrary to popular belief)
7. Shang Tsung
8. Johnny Cage
9. Mileena / Kitana

well I know this is just based purley on opinion, but I gotta disagree with you on this one fooze. Gimme the ninjas roundhouse ALLLLLLLLLL day over baraka's. I swear that ninja leg is like a gigantic fly swatter that can take ANYTHING out of the air. ( thats my opinion)

My reasoning for this opinion of mine isas follows:
When you take a step with one of the ninjas, its a jab step. They take extremely short steps and allow your movements and your spacing to be prescise. Baraka on the other hand is what I call and consider: a "boaty" character. Playing with baraka in many ways is like driving my old pontiac, he takes these big globby steps and his movements not even as close to as prescise as the ninjas exact jab stepping affords them. Try it out for yourself, 1 baraka step is like 4 ninja steps. To use baraka your spacing has to be alot more accurate before a jump because you do not have as much time to correct yourself and react to a jump. With the ninjas many times i have time to jab step then round house because thier movements are so prescise. I also think that the ninja roundhouse has more range then baraka, who lets face it is kind of a gimp.

So my roundhouse tier list would be as follows:

1-Male Ninjas
2-baraka

then I like the rest of your list although IMO ill take liu's roundhouse over jax and I also am a big fan of mileenas roundhouse. I dont know where I would put it, but it comes out fast and after so hp jab pressure its a great way to finish that combination.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 03:33:01 PM by kraptile » Logged

Foozer1
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« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2010, 09:14:40 PM »

This is something that definitely should be covered and considered! I don't have a lot of time right now, so I'll just do one. If you feel I am mistaken, please post it here so we can discuss and share ideas as this is in no way set in stone. It'd be cool if fusion and dvd could each do at least one of these, just pick any special move you like!

Roundhouse Tier List:

1. Baraka  Grin
2. Sub-Zero / Scorpion / Reptile
3. Kung Lao (not useful for anti air, but it owns in the pressure game)
4. Raiden (only because of the infinite capabilities)
5. Jax
6. Liu Kang (useful for anti air against most characters, contrary to popular belief)
7. Shang Tsung
8. Johnny Cage
9. Mileena / Kitana

well I know this is just based purley on opinion, but I gotta disagree with you on this one fooze. Gimme the ninjas roundhouse ALLLLLLLLLL day over baraka's. I swear that ninja leg is like a gigantic fly swatter that can take ANYTHING out of the air. ( thats my opinion)

My reasoning for this opinion of mine isas follows:
When you take a step with one of the ninjas, its a jab step. They take extremely short steps and allow your movements and your spacing to be prescise. Baraka on the other hand is what I call and consider: a "boaty" character. Playing with baraka in many ways is like driving my old pontiac, he takes these big globby steps and his movements not even as close to as prescise as the ninjas exact jab stepping affords them. Try it out for yourself, 1 baraka step is like 4 ninja steps. To use baraka your spacing has to be alot more accurate before a jump because you do not have as much time to correct yourself and react to a jump. With the ninjas many times i have time to jab step then round house because thier movements are so prescise. I also think that the ninja roundhouse has more range then baraka, who lets face it is kind of a gimp.

So my roundhouse tier list would be as follows:

1-Male Ninjas
2-baraka

then I like the rest of your list although IMO ill take liu's roundhouse over jax and I also am a big fan of mileenas roundhouse. I dont know where I would put it, but it comes out fast and after so hp jab pressure its a great way to finish that combination.

Yeah, Baraka's roundhouse's timing takes a little bit getting used to, but once you do, you stop all jumpkicks 100% of the time. The only reason I have him as #1 is because with the ninjas, I know it's easy to misjudge the anti-air roundhouses against shang and baraka's jumpkicks. I really don't know how the other roundhouses really stack up to tell you the truth, they are all basically usesless for anti-air... But I do know that Jax's roundhouse stops the ninja's jumpkicks pretty well also.
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dudemcrude
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« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2010, 11:25:34 PM »

Ectonaut, if it's between any two characters, it's between Baraka and the females. Shang's sweep comes out fast, but it's clumsy and short-ranged. I would say Baraka is #1 and the girls are #2.

I agree with this... Baraka has slightly more range, the females come out a bit faster, which is kind of a tie (and therefore, possibly a matter of preference).  I think Baraka has more options after nailing a sweep; females generally want to either spam the sweep, walk in for jabs, or take a step back to either A. set up anti-air, or B. counter your opponents retaliatory sweep with another of your own.  Baraka, I feel, has better aa options (his aaRH is a little easier to time from weird angles and distances than female aa-uppercuts), and if he comes inside, has more (though not necessarily better) rushdown options between jab pressure, the dreaded double knee, RH pressure, hopkicks, and crossovers that are more difficult to aa than those of female ninjas.  It's too bad Baraka's special attacks are the worst in the game, he really has a lot going for him as far as normals go.



Fuse, I think the females have the best uppercuts. How many times do you try to anti-air uppercut shang and baraka with liu and miss? The females NEVER miss those. Also, I think Lao is #2 on that list, then liu #3.
Couldn't agree more.  I thought I was the only one who felt this way, too.  

1. Female ninjas
2. Lao
3. Liu
4. Cage
5. Baraka
6. Shang
7. Raiden
8. Jax
9. Male ninjas.  

I feel very confident on the first half of that, the next half might be off a little bit.  I know I struggle with male ninja uppercuts and find them useless for anything except stopping early crossovers or on stunned opponents.  I will point out that, though I agree with you in placing Lao ahead of Liu by one spot, I think Liu's uppercuts stop crossovers a little better than Lao's, so they aren't too far apart for me.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2010, 11:28:28 PM by dudemcrude » Logged
dudemcrude
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« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2010, 11:26:27 PM »

Is a projectile a normal? im curious to see someone liest a projectile tier list...mileena and liu easily have the fastest...kung lao is good there too.
Projectile's aren't normals, but would be interesting for discussion.  If the mods are alright with it, I'll get started and then people can point out all the reasons why my stupid projectile list is a pile or rancid garbage (which it probably will be, but fuck you for being so rude about it!  Rude, I say!). =)

1. Liu- His fireballs are the best projectiles for chip damage and for aa in the game.  Like the females, can control how far he jumps across the screen by timing or alternating air fireballs at different heights and instant air fireballs.  Low fireball has longer recovery and, when blocked from sweep distance, eats a ninja slide or Mileena roll on rxn.  High fireball easier to jump over, but has very quick rxn time and Liu can block almost immediately after throwing one.

2. Mileena- Air sais come out fast and are instantly repeatable.  Sai spam can lock down about 3/4 of the characters in the game once she gets ahead in damage.  Controls how far she jumps across the screen.

3. Kitana - Alternating between air fans at varying height and instant air fans, Kitana can control how high and how far she jumps.  The most damaging projectile in the game, it also has an enormous sprite and is difficult to avoid if you are airborne.  Other than Mileena's sais, this is also the easiest projectile to link to a jumpkick-projectile combo and, by far, the most damaging.

4. Sub-Zero - His projectile really isn't that good; it doesn't come out that fast and from most distances is easily punishable with a jumpin, but once it hits, it's almost guaranteed 50% damage.  In addition, he can trade projectiles with anyone except for Liu; eat the projectile, connect with ice, and almost guaranteed 50% damage wingasm will occur.

5. Scorpion - Spear startups very fast and travels across the screen very fast, making it difficult to avoid, but the recovery is slow and a blocked spear from sweep distance is at least a sweep or standing HK.  From 1/2 screen, Mileena can block a spear and roll on reaction, Cage can block than shadow-kick, Liu can bike or dragon kick, and ninjas can slide.  Scorp can block and return a spear from just beyond half screen.  Positives, besides the speed, are the ability to buffer an extra spear for chip damage before your punish your opponent, and the spear, unlike Subbie's ice, is easily linked with combos; aa-jab, spear; deep jk, spear; crossover jk, spear; etc.

6. Shang - The ability to confuse opponents as to the number of fireballs thrown is an underrated benefit to Shang.  In addition, single or double fireballs have excellent recovery time and can be linked as a combo with deep jks or crossover jks.  Single, double, and triple fireballs all work as good aa.  If Shang backs himself into a corner and spams fireballs, 2/3rds the characters in the game can do absolutely nothing about it.  Those who can; Jax (duck under fireballs, GP on recovery frames), Sub-Zero (trade fireball for ice + uppercut), Mileena (telekick, roll), Liu (low fireball).  Raiden and Scorp teleport straight into them, while Lao dive kicks right into them.  Ninjas slide right into them. 

7. Kung Lao - Hat moves very fast across the screen, but startup and recovery frames leave Lao vulnerable.  Steering the hat up is useless anywhere except full screen (and on anticipation); aiming the hat down is actually useful from anywhere outside sweep distance.  Good for chip damage and as an aa from full screen; can shut down non-teleporting characters from that distance.

8. Reptile - Acid spit is the fastest standing projectile in the game with the fastest startup and recovery and functions as a good aa projectile.  Weakest non-stun projectile in the game, but good for holding down certain characters until you can turn invisible or, even better, bait them in for an easy RH.  Force ball sucks; would be good if it either started up faster, recovered faster, or even if it just moved faster on the screen.  Would be awesome if it did all three.

9. Jax - Energy wave doesn't cause much damage, but has a very large sprite and works very well for aa (as if this asshole didn't have enough aa option already, amirite?).  Serious lag often leaves you roundhousing the empty air or, worse, eating a jumpin as you haplessly attempt to aa it with a RH that should have been a wave.  Don't know why lag affects this move more than other half-circle moves, but as far as I'm concerned, it definitely does.

10. Cage - Low bolt good for pressuring certain characters and baiting jumpins, high bolt excellent as an aa; you can easily hit a person very, very late with this; so if they jumpin and don't have much left to their energy bar, both the jumpin and bolt connect, but only they die.  Not bad.

11. Raiden- Lightning bolt is slow, weak, and low enough to the ground to be easily avoided by jumping over it without being low enough to hit a ducking opponent.  Will occasionally anti-air late or early jumpins, though.

12. Baraka- Blade spark is, like the lightning bolt, slow and weak.  It's higher on the screen and works better as an aa, but doesn't take much damage and, to officially make this the worst projectile in the game ANYONE can sweep Baraka from HALF FUCKING SCREEN during the startup frames of the move.

The stun projectiles make this list very difficult; you could put them at the top for potential, or you could put them on the bottom for standalone value.  I chose to put them in the middle.  This list is probably way more debatable than most normal moves tier list, which makes this more fun, in my opinion.
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kraptile
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« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2010, 10:14:59 PM »

Definately without a doubt the first one is right Liu has range on his uppercut I thing Millena and kitana should be last seeing as their uppercuts are more "straight up" then the ninjas are. Just my opinion.


last?! for the girls??? No way man Kitana is a nasty bitch. I can take almost anything out of the air with her.
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« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2010, 04:55:30 AM »

Uppercut Tier list

1. Lui Kang
2. Kitana / Mileena
3. Raiden/ Johnny Cage /Baraka / Kung Lao
4. Shang Tsung / Jax
5. Sub / Scorp / Rep

again this is just my personal opinion.
Fuse, I think the females have the best uppercuts. How many times do you try to anti-air uppercut shang and baraka with liu and miss? The females NEVER miss those. Also, I think Lao is #2 on that list, then liu #3.

Good to know. Fooz and Fuse, I trust you guys' judgment on this  Wink
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Cskiba666
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« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2010, 01:07:31 AM »

Ectonaut, if it's between any two characters, it's between Baraka and the females. Shang's sweep comes out fast, but it's clumsy and short-ranged. I would say Baraka is #1 and the girls are #2.
i agree, i used to think the girls had the best sweep so i never thought of using barakas any further than theirs.  ive seen some pretty long range trips with baraka.
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GingerMagic
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« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2011, 08:59:37 PM »

i know people rarely use these but i think their underrated: standing jump kicks
 i havent thought enough to do a tier list but i would like to know ur guys' opinion..
  i love johnny cages standing jk cuz its got range and you can use it as a pressure tactic which i just found out recently.
 so let me hear your opinions!!
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KLSADAKO
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« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2011, 10:55:18 PM »

i know people rarely use these but i think their underrated: standing jump kicks
 i havent thought enough to do a tier list but i would like to know ur guys' opinion..
  i love johnny cages standing jk cuz its got range and you can use it as a pressure tactic which i just found out recently.
 so let me hear your opinions!!

I think Cage does have the best one, even from a long distance it can hit..

Raiden's isn't bad either ^^
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Foozer1
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« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2011, 02:40:55 AM »

i know people rarely use these but i think their underrated: standing jump kicks
 i havent thought enough to do a tier list but i would like to know ur guys' opinion..
  i love johnny cages standing jk cuz its got range and you can use it as a pressure tactic which i just found out recently.
 so let me hear your opinions!!
What is a standing jump-kick??  Huh?
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KLSADAKO
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« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2011, 04:10:20 AM »

i know people rarely use these but i think their underrated: standing jump kicks
 i havent thought enough to do a tier list but i would like to know ur guys' opinion..
  i love johnny cages standing jk cuz its got range and you can use it as a pressure tactic which i just found out recently.
 so let me hear your opinions!!
What is a standing jump-kick??  Huh?

I think he means jumping up on the spot..
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